pyat: (Default)
[personal profile] pyat
From Time Magazine:
"There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does. "

Yes. The argument that socialized health care and welfare will somehow bankrupt a country is an odd one, since it often comes from strong proponents of free markets, who firmly believe in society's ability to generate wealth. I also hear it from people who claim the military is underfunded.

Of course, that last point may be legitimate in Canada, where the military budget is just 1% (give or take a few tenths) of the GDP. However, I more commonly hear it from Americans, where military spending represents about 45% of total world military spending, and is at the point where the U.S. could annually fund the construction two dozen space elevators instead, something which, P.S., would generate more wealth rather than simply evaporating into accounting limbo.

In any case, the belief that socialized health care and welfare will eventually bankrupt a nation is similar to the belief that continuing to buy groceries will eventually put you in the poorhouse.

Date: 2008-09-23 12:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyat.livejournal.com
The US has 2.4 doctors per 1000 population. Canada has 2.2. So, if there is shortage, we both have a shortage. In 1975, both countries had about 1.5 doctors per 1000.

The UK has 2.5, and Germany has 3.4. Cuba has 5.91.

Date: 2008-09-23 12:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] relee.livejournal.com
Well, the shortage has been in the news a lot for the last few years, and lots of people seem to be having trouble finding doctors so I didn't have much reason to question it.

Date: 2008-09-23 12:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyat.livejournal.com
*nods* We could use some more, for sure, but it's not a result of having a socialized heathcare system.

Date: 2008-09-23 01:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] relee.livejournal.com
I wasn't suggesting it was because we have one, but because the Americans don't. I've been told and read that many Canadian med students are leaving the country as soon as they get their doctorates in order to join American clinics. Because they don't pay as much for tuition they have more personal capital to begin their practice and are able to outperform American doctors. Or so they say.

Date: 2008-09-23 01:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs-dm.livejournal.com
Actually, the main reasons for the Canadian doctor shortage include the following;

1. In 1992, the federal government enacted recommendations in the Barer-Stoddart report (penned by a couple of accountants) that suggested that Canada had too many doctors and projected a huge surplus in the near future. As a result, medical school and residency enrollment was cut by 10 percent across the country.

2. The foreseen surplus never occurred for the following demographic reasons: a) most doctors are baby-boomers or older and are retiring (or dying off) b) the ones that aren't, tend to work part-time as they are elderly or mothers with children (Yours Truly falls into this category)

Thus, the doctor-per-person statistic is sort of useless because it doesn't take into account the type of doctor (full-time family physicians are in shortest-supply) or how many hours they work.

The frustrating thing is no politician seems to want to talk about these root causes and how they can make sure this bad planning doesn't happen again. They just want to throw money at the problem.

Date: 2008-09-24 04:08 pm (UTC)
thebitterguy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thebitterguy
Wait, it's Mulroney's fault? Dammit! I hate that guy!

Date: 2008-09-23 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenten.livejournal.com
Any idea what the nursing figures are like?

Date: 2008-09-24 04:07 pm (UTC)
thebitterguy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thebitterguy
Quite hot, now that you mention it. Mrrrrow!

Date: 2008-09-24 04:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyat.livejournal.com
Have you seen [livejournal.com profile] hillarygayle? Now THERE's an American nursing figure!

Date: 2008-09-24 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hillarygayle.livejournal.com
*laughs and laughs until falls over dead*

Date: 2008-09-24 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hillarygayle.livejournal.com
I can't tell you what the precise figures are like, but I can give you an example for my area of the country: northeastern Arkansas. Last year, the first group of people who did the accelerated BSN program (1 year) that I'm in now, graduated in the summer. Two months before they graduated, 12 out of the 17 already had jobs to go to immediately, and the remaining 5 had them before graduation. Every single one is employed before they've even taken the boards. Here, "unemployed nurse" is a complete oxymoron.

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