Atheists in Fox Holes

[pyat]

From the The Slacktivist.

"I don't really understand the saying, "There are no atheists in foxholes." The reality, as seen from the enduring cultural and theological repercussions of World War I, is rather that very few theists emerge from the trenches."

Comments

[nottheterritory.livejournal.com]

That's one of those refutations that initially strikes one as so witty it must be true - but if you think about it, the two statements don't have anything to do with each other. The personal effect of finding oneself in a foxhole versus emerging from said foxhole at the end of a horrible war are very different. It would be more accurate to say, "people try on theism when confronted with life in foxholes - then, much later, when it doesn't get them out of the foxhole, emerge from the foxholes questioning everything."

Although also, many people who survive wars unscathed, emerge with an unshakeable faith in a supernatural agency that delivered them - since it seems so unlikely that you'll survive intact when you're in the middle of it.

[sixteenbynine.livejournal.com]

"people try on theism when confronted with life in foxholes - then, much later, when it doesn't get them out of the foxhole, emerge from the foxholes questioning everything."

Yeah, but you ever try to cram that onto a bumper sticker?

[pyat.livejournal.com]

Quiet, you!

By which I mean, yeah, I see that.

[taluagel.livejournal.com]

I loathe that saying, its always said with such arrogance and ignorance. It's unoriginal and just so shallow sounding. Have they themselves been in such a situation, do they know from first hand? A situation where your trapped, likely to be blown to bits at any second, questioning everything, insane with fear, does not promote rational thought. "Oh so what your saying, is that if a situation makes me crazy I will believe in a higher power, wow you sir have proved that you are right and I am wrong". The fact that this is stated by christians to prove they are right in an arguement shows what sick individuals they are and how against their so called teachings of peace and humility they have turned. To simply suggest that everyone scared shitless about to likely be horribly dismembered, if they are lucky, turn to a higher power, is just such a sick and irrational arguement. Its sort of like saying, "Yeah but if you were stuck in the cold wilds in a cave with your friends you would turn to cannibalism, there for you are a cannibal and we should have a nice longpork sandwich".

[taluagel.livejournal.com]

"Holy crap, timmy, alexander, commander richardson all died, but I am alive, clearly a magical sky wizard was looking over just me!"

[feywild.livejournal.com]

An invisible magical sky wizard! Who can see you when you go to the bathroom!

[feywild.livejournal.com]

Cabrit sans cor!

[nottheterritory.livejournal.com]

I do rather seem to have arrived at this discussion through a different door than anyone else...

[pyat.livejournal.com]

True, but it's a good door!

[taluagel.livejournal.com]

L'esprit de l'escalier.

[paka.livejournal.com]

Hard to say what I think here other than - yeah, that one phrase is an oversimplification of the vast array of how humans, in and out of uniform, will treat religion.

And that -- as in all cases where the vast depth and bredth of human spirituality is reduced to single sentence phrases for the purposes of telling me why, exactly, we need to have Christianity all over the Army as well as our civilian government -- it's utterly detestable.

[feywild.livejournal.com]

Treppenwitz.

[madmanofprague.livejournal.com]

Or the wizard had it in for timmy and alex and dickie.

[madmanofprague.livejournal.com]

A situation where your trapped, likely to be blown to bits at any second, questioning everything, insane with fear, does not promote rational thought.

It's not a bad metaphor for human existence itself, though.

[madmanofprague.livejournal.com]

Its sort of like saying, "Yeah but if you were stuck in the cold wilds in a cave with your friends you would turn to cannibalism, there for you are a cannibal and we should have a nice longpork sandwich".

We should.

[madmanofprague.livejournal.com]

Maltheism is theism too.

What's the Russian saying?

[madmanofprague.livejournal.com]

And for whatever reason, I've always thought of the original aphorism as relating to actual foxes in actual holes–the baying of dogs being the oncoming awareness of a meaningless and cruel death, etc etc...

[hossblacksilver.livejournal.com]

I prefer, never share a foxhole with anyone braver/crazier than you.