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Why Canadians seem to complain about Americans so much...
From a comment in another journal - some thoughts. My comment should in no way be taken to mean that I say, "Heck yeah, this is why we should hate all y'all!" It's a description of status quo, and part of the reason it exist:
While you never hear anyone say bad about Canada, there is certainly a history of general thoughtlessness or outright antipathy towards Canadians on the part the United States as a whole.
Partly, it has been political and military. I'll talk about that a bit first, but I want to assure you it's not as big an issue these days.
In 1895, Theodore Roosevelt wrote "the greatest boon I could confer upon this nation (would be) an immediate war with Great Britain for the conquest of Canada... I will do my very best to bring about the day."
From the American Revolution onward through the 19th century American politicans often spoke explicitly of "liberating" Canada, or annexing all or part of it in the name of Manifest Destiny. The Articles of Confederation from 1777 assumed the Canadian colonies would join.
There were also a number of military incursions (mostly unofficial) into Canada in the 19th century, in the support of local unrest against the British Crown. Often, these were condemned by Washington (such as the cross border raids by Irish American-Fenians) but also sort of tacitly permitted to continue. I beleive there were incursions by Confederate and Union troops alike during the Civil War.
Diplomatic disputes between England and the U.S. after WWI led to the development of "War Plan Red," a detailed plan for the invasion of Canada. While they were not widely known then, they show up in the news now and again up here as a curiousity piece.
Obviously, things changed after WWII, and what Canadians most fear now is a gradual loss of independence or ability to retain our sovereignty, and the perception that the U.S. just doesn't care.
For example, border states will sometimes do things like divert rivers without the approval of the Canadian government. Recent similar incidents include live fire wargame exercises in the Great Lakes - something specifically forbidden by old treaty agreements. Then, there is the U.S. refusal to acknowledge Canadian claims to various parts of the Arctic Circle.
U.S. troops or ships have been known to undertake exercises in the Canadian north without getting permission - even in areas the U.S. acknowldges as Canadian. In fact, I believe the main duty of the Canadian Rangers is to monitor U.S. military incursions.
On the more paranoid side - I'm told the U.S. recognizes fresh water as a "strategic resouce," and under some interpretations of the Carter Doctrine, this would open up the possible of an invasion to seize fresh water. And, in fact, in the late 1990s several national media outlets reported that the CIA had current plans for just such a possibility, though I'm sure those were more mental exercises than anything.
Speaking of the CIA, folks up here still remember MKULTRA.
However, for most Canadians these may be secondary to the sort of unconcious cultural arrogance evidenced by the U.S. You say you never hear anyone say anything bad about Canada, and I'm sure you don't hear anything on a daily basis. However, WE never hear Americans say anything good about Canada that isn't slightly patronizing or ironic - in the mass media, at least. Canada is America's amusing and slightly retarded little brother. Right-wing political pundits say much worse things, but then, they hate everyone.
The U.S. government is sometimes rather unpleasant to the Canadian government. Under Bush, your ambassador has been known to dictate policy to Canada, or openly criticize the Prime Minister's stance on certain policies - angrily so, in some cases. This gets reported. It builds antipathy.
Let's not forget about the time Lyndon Johnson grabbed Lester B. Pearson by the lapels and roared "Stop pissing on my goddamn carpet, Les!" because Pearson called for a negotiated end to the Vienam War. Or, how Nixon called Trudeau an asshole and a commie. To which Trudeau, quite properly, noted that he'd been called worse things by better people.
Back to the cultural point! Let me provide two media examples, to show you what respect and attention it appears Canadians are given by U.S. media outlets. (And yes, these are media outlets, not people, but most Canadians are exposed to American attitudes through the media, remember).
First, "Never Cry Wolf." A world-wide bestselling novel by Farley Mowat, who for a time was sort of looked upon as the Canadian Ernest Hemmingway... except less of a bastard. The book is credited with almost single-handedly changing conservation attitudes towards wolves. It's about Mowat's time as a researcher in the Yukon.
Disney made a movie about it - an excellent movie - in 1983. It won awards. Farley Mowat - and everyone in Canada - was a little peeved to see the movie, and find that Disney had changed the name of the protagonist from the real world "Farley Mowat" to a fictional American character, undertaking work in Alaska.
Why? Who knows.
It didn't help that, two years later, Mowat went on a world book tour... and was barred entry to the United States possibly because of his membership in a "left-wing socialist party", to whit, the New Democratic Party, a respected national federal party. This was perceived, right or wrong, as a deliberate snub against a national hero, and it also led to worldwide media attention - but was almost utterly ignored in the U.S. aside from some fluff pieces in the news.
Second film - the 2000 adventure/war film, "U-571." It's about a brave crew of Americans who capture a U-Boat and seize the Enigma code machine. It's a true story, one of the great adventures of the war, and the capture of the Enigma machine in many ways helped turn the tide of the war.
Except, of course, that the people who did it were British commandos and Canadian sailors, some of whom are still alive, IIRC. And they did it six months before the U.S. entered the war.
Why were they changed to Americans? Was the story better because they didn't have accents? I don't know. There are a multitude of examples, but this comment is already long enough.
Suffice to say that I have NEVER met a Canadian who professed to hate, or even dislike, individual Americans simply for their nationality. We DO have a national grudge - sometimes a silly one - against the US as a whole, but not against its people.
By the way, I'm wondering about the age of the people whose comments you may have read. Remember that a Canadian in his or her 20s was in highschool when Bush was elected...
While you never hear anyone say bad about Canada, there is certainly a history of general thoughtlessness or outright antipathy towards Canadians on the part the United States as a whole.
Partly, it has been political and military. I'll talk about that a bit first, but I want to assure you it's not as big an issue these days.
In 1895, Theodore Roosevelt wrote "the greatest boon I could confer upon this nation (would be) an immediate war with Great Britain for the conquest of Canada... I will do my very best to bring about the day."
From the American Revolution onward through the 19th century American politicans often spoke explicitly of "liberating" Canada, or annexing all or part of it in the name of Manifest Destiny. The Articles of Confederation from 1777 assumed the Canadian colonies would join.
There were also a number of military incursions (mostly unofficial) into Canada in the 19th century, in the support of local unrest against the British Crown. Often, these were condemned by Washington (such as the cross border raids by Irish American-Fenians) but also sort of tacitly permitted to continue. I beleive there were incursions by Confederate and Union troops alike during the Civil War.
Diplomatic disputes between England and the U.S. after WWI led to the development of "War Plan Red," a detailed plan for the invasion of Canada. While they were not widely known then, they show up in the news now and again up here as a curiousity piece.
Obviously, things changed after WWII, and what Canadians most fear now is a gradual loss of independence or ability to retain our sovereignty, and the perception that the U.S. just doesn't care.
For example, border states will sometimes do things like divert rivers without the approval of the Canadian government. Recent similar incidents include live fire wargame exercises in the Great Lakes - something specifically forbidden by old treaty agreements. Then, there is the U.S. refusal to acknowledge Canadian claims to various parts of the Arctic Circle.
U.S. troops or ships have been known to undertake exercises in the Canadian north without getting permission - even in areas the U.S. acknowldges as Canadian. In fact, I believe the main duty of the Canadian Rangers is to monitor U.S. military incursions.
On the more paranoid side - I'm told the U.S. recognizes fresh water as a "strategic resouce," and under some interpretations of the Carter Doctrine, this would open up the possible of an invasion to seize fresh water. And, in fact, in the late 1990s several national media outlets reported that the CIA had current plans for just such a possibility, though I'm sure those were more mental exercises than anything.
Speaking of the CIA, folks up here still remember MKULTRA.
However, for most Canadians these may be secondary to the sort of unconcious cultural arrogance evidenced by the U.S. You say you never hear anyone say anything bad about Canada, and I'm sure you don't hear anything on a daily basis. However, WE never hear Americans say anything good about Canada that isn't slightly patronizing or ironic - in the mass media, at least. Canada is America's amusing and slightly retarded little brother. Right-wing political pundits say much worse things, but then, they hate everyone.
The U.S. government is sometimes rather unpleasant to the Canadian government. Under Bush, your ambassador has been known to dictate policy to Canada, or openly criticize the Prime Minister's stance on certain policies - angrily so, in some cases. This gets reported. It builds antipathy.
Let's not forget about the time Lyndon Johnson grabbed Lester B. Pearson by the lapels and roared "Stop pissing on my goddamn carpet, Les!" because Pearson called for a negotiated end to the Vienam War. Or, how Nixon called Trudeau an asshole and a commie. To which Trudeau, quite properly, noted that he'd been called worse things by better people.
Back to the cultural point! Let me provide two media examples, to show you what respect and attention it appears Canadians are given by U.S. media outlets. (And yes, these are media outlets, not people, but most Canadians are exposed to American attitudes through the media, remember).
First, "Never Cry Wolf." A world-wide bestselling novel by Farley Mowat, who for a time was sort of looked upon as the Canadian Ernest Hemmingway... except less of a bastard. The book is credited with almost single-handedly changing conservation attitudes towards wolves. It's about Mowat's time as a researcher in the Yukon.
Disney made a movie about it - an excellent movie - in 1983. It won awards. Farley Mowat - and everyone in Canada - was a little peeved to see the movie, and find that Disney had changed the name of the protagonist from the real world "Farley Mowat" to a fictional American character, undertaking work in Alaska.
Why? Who knows.
It didn't help that, two years later, Mowat went on a world book tour... and was barred entry to the United States possibly because of his membership in a "left-wing socialist party", to whit, the New Democratic Party, a respected national federal party. This was perceived, right or wrong, as a deliberate snub against a national hero, and it also led to worldwide media attention - but was almost utterly ignored in the U.S. aside from some fluff pieces in the news.
Second film - the 2000 adventure/war film, "U-571." It's about a brave crew of Americans who capture a U-Boat and seize the Enigma code machine. It's a true story, one of the great adventures of the war, and the capture of the Enigma machine in many ways helped turn the tide of the war.
Except, of course, that the people who did it were British commandos and Canadian sailors, some of whom are still alive, IIRC. And they did it six months before the U.S. entered the war.
Why were they changed to Americans? Was the story better because they didn't have accents? I don't know. There are a multitude of examples, but this comment is already long enough.
Suffice to say that I have NEVER met a Canadian who professed to hate, or even dislike, individual Americans simply for their nationality. We DO have a national grudge - sometimes a silly one - against the US as a whole, but not against its people.
By the way, I'm wondering about the age of the people whose comments you may have read. Remember that a Canadian in his or her 20s was in highschool when Bush was elected...
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I could just as easily say that all French/Dutch/German people are rude, inconsiderate bastards, and, while I'd be describing a certain select group, and be accurate, I'd be wrong because, it is my belief, that most people aren't rude, inconsiderate bastards. This goes for any group/country.
I got what
So, because of a small number of people, some of them not even really selected to represent us, we're hated. That sound fair to you?
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Now, we have President-Elect Obama. Who is the polar opposite of Bush and won in a landslide vote (by our definition). I'd say your opinion's pretty... out there.
:-) No offense. Just setting the record straight. You know, with facts and all.
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But hey, while we're at it, do you agree with every single policy of every one of your friends? It's possible to want a candidate even when you don't agree with him, because he offers something that transcends some disagreements.
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I don't think that's what he's saying at all. Our relationship with the States tends to be very mixed. We have good reasons for having some negative feelings, but at the same time, we generally see America as a pretty good place with pretty good relations with us. We look up to America even while we resent being looked down on in turn. It's not so simple as "we hate you."
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For the most part, we don't think about Canada. Which you could take as a compliment of sorts. Means that nothing majorly bad really happens and there's nothing for us to mock. "We're" (and by that I mean the media) is good at the mocking and jump at the chance to do so whenever possible. That we don't mock you guys? Means that there isn't something that we can find to mock.
So, in other words, you guys are doing a good job. You don't come to the attention of a society that's generally self-interested but loves to take time out to ridicule.
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I think that that's why this post and these threads have pissed me off so much - because it is basically about prejudice. Something that I don't tolerate. At all. (My own personal prejudice.)
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It becomes damaging when one refuses to acknowledge the prejudices (we've acknowledged them) and then refuses to accept individuals as they find them without counting the prejudice against them (we do accept individuals as we find them) and then refuses to revise the prejudice upon examination of further facts. The third - well, that's what the post was about. The result: we're still cautious in how we view America's interactions with Canada on a national and media level, because the evidence gives us reason to be. Individually, there is no prejudice.